Jehovah’s Witnesses teach the Holy Spirit is a force!

Darth_VadorThe ODMafia research robot monkeys have found the following and startling information

“…The Holy Spirit is a force, not alive” that according to Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, p. 406-407.

It would appear that the Jehovah’s Witness and all their door to door proclaimation of THE TRUTH have something in common with Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker – Jehovah’s Witnesses embrace the force.

But even their New World Translation accurately states:

NWT Jn 16:8 And when that one arrives he will give the world convincing evidence concerning sin….

NWT Jn 16:13 he guides into all truth.

Other Bible translations note….

Jn 14:17 the Spirit was to be in the Apostles (the world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him or knows him.)

Romans 8:27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Romans 15:30 Now I urge you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God for me…

Acts 13:2 While they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.

Jn 14:16-17 Spirit is a counselor and Spirit of truth

Now that is quite a force!!!! The Holy Spirit is  referenced in personal pronouns, has love for believers, gives orders, counsellor and possess truth...hmmm.

Still the Watchtower is evidently MORE familiar with the phrase “Use the force Luke…”

PS Pass me the Star Wars Revised Translation….

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26 Responses to Jehovah’s Witnesses teach the Holy Spirit is a force!

  1. Namorous says:

    You slander the servants of Jehovah, the true God. His witnesses to the comming destruction of ungodly men believe that the Holy Spirit is Jehovah’s active force upon the creation. His invisible acts, such as his descending his will like a dove onto his son Jesus in approval. The Holy spirit is not independant, some part of a an unscriptural triad of deities. The lie is in the world but so is the truth.

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  2. iggy says:

    Namorous,

    Take a look at this site and seriously work through this concerning the plurality of God… then get back to us. I think if you take a honest look at the teachings of the bible you will see that reducing the Holy Spirit just a “force” is a bit blasphemous.

    An easy way to understand the Trinity is by using simple algebra.

    a = 1
    b = 1
    c = 1

    a x b x c = 1

    Jesus = God
    Holy Spirit = God
    Father God = God

    Jesus x Holy Spirit x Father God = One God

    It is not three separate “gods” (1+1+1) making One God, but One God in Three Persons.

    Again, if you have the truth then you have nothing to worry about, so go through the study and see what you find. I suggest that you pray to Father God to guide you through the study.

    Peace,
    iggy

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  3. Namorous says:

    Nonsense, it is plain when Jesus says to the woman “why do you call me good? Only the Father is good.” It is evident when Jesus says “The Father is greater than I am.” The writting is on the wall and surrounding you daily when we read Jesus’s prayer to Jehovah shortly before they took him away. When he prayed to the Father (not himself) asking him to take away that cup of sacrifice if it be avoidable.

    You men twist the truth and the evidence stacks against you while you make light of the seriousness of this good news on places like this. That is why your end will be of your own making and your ignorance of the matter shows that you are not following Jehovah closely in these things. You fail to use his name in worship and prayer and just as the Bible said not to be praising the son of God above Jehovah (which you do) it also says to honor him in prayer in regards to Jehovah the maker of his first born Jesus who became flesh to help the men on the Earth whom he loved. He has returned and serves as high priest to the one sitting on the throne, not even needing to sacrifice the fat of bulls or lambs because he himself is the sacrifice.

    Did the Bible not say that the lamb appeared before Jehovah before his throne to plead for the good ones left in the Earth? Didnt the Bible say that Jesus went his way to set at Jehovah’s right hand until Jehovah put Jesus’s enemies beneath his feet? Foolish men who love the lie! There is no place you can hide that he cannot penetrate through the breath of your nostrils. Even though the leaders themselves may hide underwater and under the mountains durring the tribulation it will not suffice for the ruin they brought to the Earth.

    “This is my son the beloved, whom I have approved.”

    “This is my beloved son, listen to him”

    Micha’el who attained a greater name than the angels, that he be chief among them in all things for his unsurpassed sacrifice for “his God and Father”. Archangel being “chief of the angels”.

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  4. iggy says:

    Namorous,

    So in your mind the bible states Jesus was not good? If Jesus was not good then how did he save you? Jesus was sinless right? Jesus was the Lamb that was slain, but the lambs of the OT were perfect and without blemish so were “good” and acceptable for sacrifice. If Jesus was not good as you are stating, then he could not be the lamb that was acceptable for sacrifice in God’s standard of goodness.

    So you have an issue here.. if God alone is good, then Jesus was not good and then could not save you.

    So then is Jesus good or not?

    So you either trust in a Jesus that is not “good” who cannot save you, or believe in a Jesus that is good and then according to your own logic, must be God… for only God is good.

    Also, how do you explain that your own translation refers to the Holy Spirit as a He if it is just a force and is then without gender? Isn’t that a bit inconsistent?

    iggy

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  5. iggy says:

    Also, you are stating that through an Angel all things were created?

    Weird… I thought God created as the bible states… for when God spoke there was only God in Genesis… note the first line in the bible.

    In the beginning God, there was no one but God and then he spoke all things into creation… Not that there is no other person there but God. Jesus was not a creation but the very words God spoke… He was the Logos of God as John refers to Him.

    Jesus was in the Father as he states as he was the words God spoke… Are your words separated from you? No the bible states that as a man speaks so is the condition of his heart… so Jesus was the condition of God’s heart… or God’s expression of himself as He spoke the very words of creation… Jesus was the “Let there be…”

    To state Jesus was a created being also negates our salvation… for which of the angels did God say as stated in Hebrews from your own translation:

    Hebrews 1:1 God, who long ago spoke on many occasions and in many ways to our forefathers by means of the prophets, 2 has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things. 3 He is the reflection of [his] glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power; and after he had made a purification for our sins he sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places. 4 So he has become better than the angels, to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

    5 For example, to which one of the angels did he ever say: “You are my son; I, today, I have become your father”? And again: “I myself shall become his father, and he himself will become my son”? 6 But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: “And let all God’s angels do obeisance to him.”

    7 Also, with reference to the angels he says: “And he makes his angels spirits, and his public servants a flame of fire.” 8 But with reference to the Son: “God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with [the] oil of exultation more than your partners.” 10 And: “You at [the] beginning, O Lord, laid the foundations of the earth itself, and the heavens are [the] works of your hands. 11 They themselves will perish, but you yourself are to remain continually; and just like an outer garment they will all grow old, 12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as an outer garment; and they will be changed, but you are the same, and your years will never run out.”

    Note first that the writer is stating that God did not say this to any angel as Jesus is superior to the angels… and we agree Jesus is superior to the angels. Yet also note God the Father of Jesus states that Jesus is God…

    8 But with reference to the Son: “God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness. 9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with [the] oil of exultation more than your partners.”

    Note that the same word “God” in verse 8 is also used of the Father in verse 5? Is that Jehovah God in verse 5 then it is saying that Jesus is Jehovah in verse 8 as it is the Father stating that Jesus is God… note the big “G” usage?

    So again, even your own bible refers to Jesus as the same as the Father…

    I can show you more references if you like from your own translation that show this over and over unless it is twisted out of the text as so often the case.

    Now if it is twisted out, then why is that? Who is twisting the truth… I say it is those who desire to hold you in bondage from the truth.

    The Life is in the Son… be sure you have the Son and not some fictitious created caricature of him… for without the True Son there is no life…

    I have received this Life and was changed… I have the fullness of Christ Jesus now living in me and I in Him…

    If you really believe the bible then read it for what it states, not for just what you were taught. Jesus warned of many false teachers and false Christs that will come. So beware.

    Let me add one more thought in reference to Jesus being an angel…

    Hebrews 1: 13 But with reference to which one of the angels has he ever said: “Sit at my right hand, until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet”? 14 Are they not all spirits for public service, sent forth to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?

    Note that it states that all angels are for public service sent of minister? Do you not believe that the bible states all to mean all… all would include Jesus if he is an angel… or you have a contradiction in the bible. Either the bible is correct in stating that “all” are as it says or it is wrong… according to you the bible is wrong in stating “all”.

    I am praying for you not against you that you may grow in the grace a knowledge or our Lord Jesus Christ.

    iggy

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  6. Arthur McJohn says:

    I accept it is difficult to accept monotheism and trinity at the same time. Honestly, I don’t expect anyone could understand this. But there are some biblical passages that suggest a trinitarian nature of God (for example 1 Jn 5: 7-12).

    However, I find really disgusting the attitude of Namorous, something that seems to be common within JW (thanks God you are somewhat a pacifist religion!).

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  7. iggy says:

    Arthur,

    Breaking character once again… I see this is common in most legalistic religions… but rare in the humble believers of Jesus…

    iggy

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  8. Namorous says:

    The prophecy is this: that you gentiles get to believing the lie intensely and because of the continued misleading of the people’s through false worship the people will become agitated at the continued decreasing of food, opportunities and brotherly affection because the love for the greater number is cooling off.

    I submit in this, that none of you men got to identifying one of God’s servants when he appeared to you, he speaking with some authority imparted here in the low plain as a stopping gap against the defilers and besmerchers of Jehovah’s name and his very individuality. This is a serious matter, far more serious than the gentile nations are reckoning it to be, which is why you all make light of the situation in the midst of battle. You are in opposition and struggling against one whom you are not even worthy of grabbing the hem of his robes. I will continue to decrease in esteem while he increases but where will you be if you aren’t recognizing the true God?

    May he judge between us with the king he has appointed to bring us into his love fully after his 1,ooo year reign over the Earth. Then just as it is written, “he will hand over the kingdom to his God and Father, that he may be all things to all people.” Because the flesh on the Earth will have been made perfect and holy enough to Jehovah that he actually comes down upon the people and actually becomes the light of day.

    May Jehovah discern how you men would not listen, that his congregation stay divided from the synagogue of Satan who’s followers call mere men in tall hats “father” when Jesus himself said to “call no man on Earth father, as there is a father in heaven.” (spoken at the time Jesus himself was on the Earth). I tell you now obstinate ones, he will crush your forehead if your thoughts are not recognizing the father and ALSO the son, whom Jehovah’s holy spirit empowered and created from times memorial and he was happy before his father all the time, immitating him, he having a hand in the crowning creation and rest of Jehovah’s way. Since your neck wont bend and observe the reason above, you will not yield when he passes over and it will actually break. May that not happen, may I pray about this tonight. You’all will still take a seat behind when you start seeing men bring back the things from former times.

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  9. iggy says:

    Again, the fruit of the Spirit just pours off of Namorous…

    Now, what really gets me is that there is not love toward those he sees as lost.

    And the Bible would call Namorous a banging gong…

    To sad really that Namorous would rather accuse abuse and never once truly take an honest look at what was stated here… But again, the spirit of blindness and legalism is most often overcome with prayer and divine intervention.

    So, with that I pray for you Namorous that the Love of Christ will fill your heart and that the Holy Spirit will open your eyes… may you be brought to humility so that you receive grace and grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

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  10. Namorous says:

    All your talk is empty talk while all the brothers are being decieved on account of you. The word is making God’s true servants a pillar of fire and there is a comming of the sword instead of peace on the Earth. With my text firmly and perhaps authoritatively expressing the reality of Jehovah you cannot see the love nor any hate but you sense it is hate because you are at odds with the truest one himself and you will not pay him homage in his individuality as all you have said is “Jesus Christ the lord” and prince who has become king, to the glory of Jehovah the father and God of kings. Jehovah is not his own high priest nor has he promised the kingdom of spiritual israel to himself. (physical Israel disolved).

    Enemy of the one I love I will deal with you in all manner of sternness because many brothers are stumbled to death on acount of the deception you men love to embrace in majority, to the confusion of all on the Earth and a disagreeing in all things, even as the youth forget Jehovah and laugh at your false enterpretation of Yahoshua Messiah who brought tribute to the creator by telling his apostles that he was on his way to Jehovah, the one who sent him forth and who put the words in his mouth to say to mankind on Jehovah’s behalf.

    The one doing the sending is not the one sent. If you cannot understand this you will perish but not without a warning. May Jehovah God remember my prayer in regards to you men that you be made to know the reality of these words, as they are not my own but of the spirit. Indeed the holy spirit just poors onto me.

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  11. iggy says:

    Namorous,

    Do you not believe the bible when it states that Jesus did not come to condemn the world but to save it? I find it interesting that you see fit to do even what Jesus did not do… and that was to condemn others. You seem fit to usurp the judgment seat of Jehovah himself and judge and condemn others. How sad… you seem to not reflect the God of compassion that loved the world so much He gave His Son so none would perish… you seem fit to live in a legalistic rage and hate against those God saw fit to love.

    If that is your god… then I am glad I do not believe in such a hate-filled god as you represent him to be… what a heavy burden to carry such contempt and hate toward those God desires to save… and what sadness I have for you in your contempt for the kindness of God you seem to have. My heart breaks over your deception and the hate that has been instilled in you by whatever teachings you are under.

    You will perish in your sins if you do not have the right Jesus… and I fear you do not from your very own fruit you express here. Again, my prayers are for you to find the great salvation that God has given through Jesus… the True Jesus.

    Peace,

    iggy

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    • Namorous says:

      You are the sad case because the judgement has already passed and the ruler of this dense darkness has already been judged just as Jesus said that when he comes he is comming with the sword and his companions of his chosen will strike the cities with iron rods just as they saw in their visions on the Earth. They will be transmuted to spirit bings, fellow judges who will serve over mankind on the Earth for 1,ooo years of undeserved kindness. But you are disregarding much of the sacred secrets Jehovah is revealing to you even now and you attack my personage and my faith with groundless accusations that fail under the power of Jehovah’s word which is not my own. You are a stupid man if you think Jesus will not destroy these cruced authorities you love who despise peace and the sharing and breaking down of borders and worshipping of idols and valuing of product over person. Perhaps you are proud of a flag of your nation over another nation, that you truly be divided while you think your words are for Jehovah. No, they are for Jesus whom you put even above his father. He cannot recommend it and will appose you intensely, you and Caesar who say mere men are “father”. You are trying to besmerch the existing personage of Jehovah from people all across the world and because of your ignorance there is no pitty for you. The evidence remains a charge against your very soul and Jehovah is with me in this. I prayed he have mercy on you and I believe he will but you are doing damage to the understanding of the arangement so that I may continue suffering durring Satan’s temporary rule and denial of God the father.

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  12. Namorous says:

    Iggy could not be understanding that even though it is written that Jehovah God alone is good. It is plainly stated out of Jesus’s mouth.

    Luke 18:19

    19 Jesus said to him: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good, except one, God.

    EXEPT ONE, a self, a personage besides Jesus who is actually God and not the son who obeys.

    “And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.”

    “Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God.”

    “And Jesus said to him, Why do you say that I am good? No one is good, but only God.”

    This is why there is sterness in this word not my own, so that God does not show you something even more firm in an iron rod that smashes that desirable vessal who does not recognize the hands that shaped it. The one who made all things by his own power and all to be desired be through him and no other mighty one. Jesus himself is knowing that his good is actually the father’s gift he gives for the sake of the life he created, that all men be able to share in good, knowing it is Jehovah’s and his express will. Jesus went on to obey and sacrifice his life, not God’s life, so that Jehovah saw the shed blood and that his son yielded up the active spirit that God restored him from certain death and the perishing of thoughts, as he did indeed cease to exist until the yearning of Jehovah’s hands restored him after three days. Afterward Jesus’s name was superior to any other spirit prince as he gave his life on behalf of friends which is an act of goodness because it accomplished a great saving. Jesus the son of love is good to the glory of God the father.

    May none of you men get to calling me good as I have done things good for nothing and even through my loving this life I do violence to my own soul because it is not the real life but Satan’s kingdom of fantasies and the phantoms of former living ones, even the loa who are the demons that do pose as our dead loved ones and ancestors to decieve the most ancient of days of our flesh, the African man whom God has known since the founding. So that you men get to eating up our sin constantly in the exploitation, taking full advantage of the inheretence of your older brother.

    Now let it be said once for all time from a heart from the father God whom you deny that you gentiles will continue loving the lie, no matter the convincing evidence toward your own sins, even as you try and find fault with mine and want me to play this charade of psuedo spirituality and conversational pleasantries in the face of billions of vipers who roam the spaces denying God’s plainly written truth everyday. I am not talking about your collective characters as if you are not here and truly I am addressing more than you.

    You are not the last I will encounter, even as Jehovah may grant me to witness the truth to the newly resurrected after the destruction of the towers and the breaking up of the concrete, that I might inform Jehovah’s dead who may have passed from the Earth without knowledge of his express will. They will wake up and be tought by persons of the supreme one, whom you are not knowing. He is Jehovah God who has appointed his heir who has an inheretence, as no one recieves an inheretence if he himself is the one giving all things from his hand. Jehovah will not inheret anything from we who have nothing to give but our very souls and praise of the lips. Give glory to Jehovah you confused men. Do it.

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  13. iggy says:

    Namorous,

    It is you that is without understanding… so Jesus was not good… so he can not save… that is the logic of your reasoning… only God saves us, not a man or angel… you are deluded and I will let God deal with you… and I am saddened by that.

    Really the amazing thing is that the bible clearly teaches us to love others… as God loved us. You show no love and only hatred toward those who disagree with you… the bible states clearly that the world will hate those who have passed from darkness to light and to me, you prove that… yo have me for that very reason… I have passed from darkness to light and love God and others for God first loved me. Until I came to faith in God through Jesus I did not know love nor loved others… now I love because I first was loved.

    You show by your words you do not know the love of God and do not know how to love others.

    Again, my prayers are with you not against you to find the love and compassion of God through Jesus Christ.

    I do not see why you even keep coming here other than that you feel some self righteous satisfaction in judging and condemning others. You are so sad… and so deluded… my heart breaks for you. If I am so lost why waste your time condemning me? God and spread your hate-gospel elsewhere! I am lost I admit… I am lost to your hate-filled gospel… and the denial of truth you represent…

    May the God of all mercy and Grace fill your heart with His love and compassion for Him and replace you godless zeal for his passion.

    Peace,
    iggy

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  14. Namorous says:

    WHEN JESUS WAS ALIVE HE KNEW THAT IS WAS JEHOVAH WHO WAS GOOD AND WE THE RECIEVERS OF GOOD. AND IF WE OBEY HIS TRUENESS HE WILL ANOINT US AND CONSIDER US GOOD. JESUS WHEN SPEAKING THAT WORD SO PLAINLY NEW YOUR MIND WOULD FAIL IN THE ENTERPRETATION. JESUS COMMITED A TRUE ACT OF GOODNESS BY OBEYING JEHOVAH EVEN ON PAIN OF DEATH THAT NO ONE HAS EVER ACCOMPLISHED SUCH A WORK SO INDEED, NOW, JESUS IS GOOD AND PROVEN WORTHY.

    I laugh at you as you say my zeal is Godless. I am praising the father and you are only knowing the son. All you men look and see for yourselves because it is you who Jehovah will reveal it to as I am not quareling with iggy but his superior who does love your confusion. Let the matter rest man, as testiment of mankind’s rebelion, his disagreement even with his own loins and his arguing with his own belly button. Hopeless men that we are that we cant discern the most basic of Jehovah’s truth’s. Even if his voice rang out from heaven today men would not believe the words and get to scowering the skies for some alien vessals and some fleshly thing to come down and worshipped because men worship the flesh and even the death of flesh held holy by Jehovah the creater of all spirits, including Jesus, “his first born of all creation.” AS IT IS WRITTEN.

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  15. iggy says:

    Namorous,
    Then your fight is against God and Jesus… though your hate is directed at me. If Jesus was not good, then he could not do the good that would please God… and Jesus lied as he WAS good… and you just stated it…

    So Jesus was good, and thus God… yet you deny that and are too blind to see the glaring contradiction you have just stated.

    I am just a man… no matter how much good I do and how obedient I am, I cannot save myself. Angels are eternal beings who (if you read and believe Genesis) cannot be saved as they are eternal and if fallen cannot die and be resurrected. One must die and be resurrected to have eternal life the bible speaks of.

    An angel cannot die… thus cannot be the Lamb that was slain… for an eternal being cannot be… slain.

    A man cannot save anyone, not even himself…

    So you have an man-angel that cannot save you as a little god… and have fallen from the truth of the One True God. And I hurt for you.

    You miss that Esau and Jacob where Esau was born first yet gave over his birth right to the second born… Jesus is the second Adam… He is the first born heir… and that is the meaning of the passage if you understand the teachings of the OT in relationship to the NT… Jesus was not “born first” but is the Heir through his obedience unto death… the one that was pronounced perfect for His obedience.

    You believe a lie and sadly have fallen from the truth.

    If you only understood the bible as it is written you would find the life that if professes you will find in Christ Jesus.

    iggy

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  16. mountainguy says:

    So anyone who is not a JW is under satanic power? If I ever expect a nice argument against trinitarian christianity it has to come from unitarians, or even muslims; I think they can be more interesintg than someone who denies his/her children the right to have a blood transfusion.

    BTW, I’m the same Arthur McJohn (I’m mountainguy when I try to be serious)

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  17. mountainguy says:

    I think I was offensive in my previous post. Unlike other trinitrian christians I don’t like to think of JW as a wrong religion. The very few JW I know personally are great people. However, I find Namorous rethoric to be a little disgusting. Surely, this is not an excuse to my reaction (Though I do criticise the denial of blood transfusion as supposed to be religiously or biblically based).

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  18. iggy says:

    mountainguy,

    I do believe that Namorous does not really represent the typical JW… Most I met are polite and loving people. Though I do think what they are taught is represented by Namorous.

    This is from a JW approved site that explains what they claim to believe concerning those not in their faith.

    “Do you believe that you are the only ones who will be saved?

    No. Many millions who have lived in centuries past and who were not Jehovah’s Witnesses will come back in a resurrection and have an opportunity for life. Many now living may yet take a stand for truth and righteousness before God’s time of judgment, and they will gain salvation. Moreover, Jesus said that we should not be judging one another. Humans look at the outward appearance; God looks at the heart. He sees accurately and judges mercifully. God has committed judgment into Jesus’ hands, not ours.—Matthew 7:1-5; John 5:22, 27.”

    So either Namorous has not been taught well or is so burdened with guilt he cannot convert others and must them blame them for their non conversion.

    To me all religion (aside from taking care of widows and orphans as the bible describes as pure religion) is wrong and takes away the relational aspect of ones salvation. If on must please their god through obedience then they are adding to the finished works of Christ Jesus and not trusting in what He has done. Religion is man’s attempt to reach God on man’s own terms… that is why blood transfusions while they sound “spiritual” mean nothing as “Flesh and blood will not inherit the Kingdom” (1 Cor 15:20)

    So if someone takes blood from another, it means nothing for in the Kingdom of God there will be no more dependence on blood for life as that same passage tells us we will be transformed into heavenly bodies which no longer depend on flesh and blood but raised imperishable and incorruptible.

    Such religious notions sound so spiritual but lack any real meaning or power.

    Having had my life changed and knowing many others who have had a similar experience as me, I find it sad that so many are trapped in religion when they could have a real relationship with God through Jesus now. They are happy with the shadow and do not care for the reality that is Christ Jesus.

    Yet, I do not blame them as it is only by Grace that one is saved… and if one only humbly asks God to save them, He will as God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud.

    iggy

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  19. Namorous says:

    John 17:24
    24 Father, as to what you have given me, I wish that, where I am, they also may be with me, in order to behold my glory that you have given me, because you loved me before the founding of the world. 25 Righteous Father, the world has, indeed, not come to know you; but I have come to know you, and these have come to know that you sent me forth. 26 And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”

    You people arent understanding anything said, not in the slightest. It is a marvel. It is as if futility it’s self has become a visible being herding all of you from the table of Jehovah, even as he is cleaving the bull and preparing it for his sons on the day of marraige between the first borne and his congregation who has become like a baeutiful bride in the eyes of all who reside in the heights. In the most important things you are made not to know and you will continue in your false doctrine until the appointed time. A clowd as prophecied has descended over the minds of the gentiles who rule with secrets and lie saying “God this day rules, he being behind our authority we must attack!” They sit in the judgement seat, even in the holy place, a disgusting thing that should not. A beastly power fueled by the ignorance of elete spiritual leaders who are the end result of the corrup Pharisees of Jesus’s day. You will be made to know your error you popular ones who support men with swords, or should I say guns. You will be made to understand that Jehovah is comming with his war party, all his army, even the flocks of birds and he will crush and put an end to this sytem of things of which you love so much and trust in thinking mere men can bring peace.

    1Thessalonians 5:3-5
    3 Whenever it is that they are saying: “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape. 4 But YOU, brothers, YOU are not in darkness, so that that day should overtake YOU as it would thieves, 5 for YOU are all sons of light and sons of day. We belong neither to night nor to darkness.

    Jehovah God who is over all kings who will rule and who’s true servants are held lowest in esteem by the sons of men. They do not want it and just as they rejected him they will reject me. I will suffer all these things and as you gentiles hem us in and kill my brother(s) you will actually get to thinking you are doing Jehovah a favor but you are not knowing him and it is a life for a life. He is most high, above Obama, even above Jesus and you will not forget, even as none will forget Yahoshua Messiah who is good in the eyes of God and righteous and worthy of praise through his Father who gave him his inheretence with joy because he thoroughly pleased him. Amen.

    John 15:26
    26 When the helper arrives that I will send YOU from the Father, the spirit of the truth, which proceeds from the Father, that one will bear witness about me; 27 and YOU, in turn, are to bear witness, because YOU have been with me from when I began.

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  20. Namorous says:

    iggy, you cant portend to know my heart all you can do is see my words and how there is no lie, even truths yet to be revealed in full to those outside in the nations. My heart is from God as I forgive even the woman who betrays me and I tell her I love her even while I depart for greener pastures. I know I must forgive my brother atleast 77 times before I die so what is it you can tell me? I have not been informed by you but by one greater than all of us and there is no falsehood in any of these texts. You must study and come to find, I know you will because I prayed that it be so and the Father now shows me mercy in the face of tragedy.

    I will pray again and ask Jehovah to bless you men with the thinking faculties that may have dissapeared in latter generations since we were long lived and more vigorous and like Jehovah. I will pray that he adds to your households, as long as you progress in understanding in his word. I pray you make it to his true congregation, that you witness the destruction of ungodly men on the Earth. It will become a posession of a peoples who will not die at all but fill the Earth and take a celestial ark from Jehovah to another planet prepared, repeat infinitum. Amen

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  21. iggy says:

    Namorous,

    Let’s look at these versus closer:

    John 17:20 “I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; 21 in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth. 22 Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one. 23 I in union with them and you in union with me, in order that they may be perfected into one, that the world may have the knowledge that you sent me forth and that you loved them just as you loved me. 24 Father, as to what you have given me, I wish that, where I am, they also may be with me, in order to behold my glory that you have given me, because you loved me before the founding of the world. 25 Righteous Father, the world has, indeed, not come to know you; but I have come to know you, and these have come to know that you sent me forth. 26 And I have made your name known to them and will make it known, in order that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in union with them.”

    1. “just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you”

    So what is this “union”? The literal translation would be simply “one” and Jesus is praying that believers will be one with Jesus as He is one in the Father. Jesus was stating that his very life was dependant on the Father. (John 5: 19-20) Jesus only did as He saw the Father already doing. They were one in purpose and in “being”.

    Hebrews 1: 3. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4. So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs. NIV

    The NWT translation even backs this up:

    Hebrews 1: 3 He is the reflection of [his] glory and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power; and after he had made a purification for our sins he sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places. 4 So he has become better than the angels, to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

    Note that it states that Jesus is a “reflection” so in the passage in John 5 and 17 Jesus reflected what the Father was doing. Note also, that Jesus is stated as “the exact representation of God’s being” as well as being God’s “glory”. This is important and should not be missed as though I am the image of God… I am not an exact representation of God. This means there was something more about Jesus than him being just a mere man.

    Now, what is an exact representation? It means that whatever God is or is like Jesus is exactly like that… He is exactly as God is. Now note also that in the Hebrews passage even in the NWT that Jesus is “better” than the angels… better should indicate that Jesus was NOT an angel as He was better than angels just as Jesus was better than the Law (which was a shadow of Jesus and not the reality Hebrews 10 the reality is Jesus Col 2:17) Jesus was better than the Law and also better than any high priest that served Jehovah that ever lived. Jesus became The High Priest, and was better than any that lived as he “sat down” which no high priest could ever do in the Holy of Holies of the sanctuary. (Hebrew 1:3; 8) This again shows that Jesus was not a mere man as He was able to “sit down”. Jesus prayer about this “union” also goes deeper. As so far Jesus is not a mere man, nor angel or your average high priest (who alone was able to go into the Holy of Holies), no He was the exact representation of God as I stated.

    Matthew 22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
    42. “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” “The son of David,” they replied. 43. He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him `Lord’? For he says, 44. “`The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet.” ‘ 45. If then David calls him `Lord,’ how can he be his son?”

    Note that in the Greek the word Lord is kurios which is YHWH or as you pronounce it Jehovah. So though you find it illogical that Jesus would pray to himself, God seems to speak to Himself and states that Jesus as Jesus points out himself being “Lord” or Kurios:

    Matt 22: 44 ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet”’?

    Isn’t it funny that the NWT does not use Kurios for their translation… It is there plain as can be in the Greek… yet they choose to hide the fact that Jesus is saying “Jehovah said to my Jehovah” Or “Kurios said to my Kurio”…

    Look it up and you will find it as I am saying.

    Jehovah God calls Jesus Jehovah as well as Jesus calls himself Jehovah in the passage…. And then later this is fulfills as Jesus did sit down after his final sacrifice of himself. The only difference in the word Kurios is that the first time it is nomitive singlular (meaning that Jehovah is the speaker as “said” is the verb that follows) and Kurio is the dative singular noun. Which simply means that the second Kurio is the masculine and one spoken to.

    So now you have the issue that you rose that Jesus speaking to himself is proof Jesus was not God and here Jesus is using the passage to show that Jehovah spoke of Jesus as the Jehovah that would sit down.

    Jesus had more than just a union of purpose with the Father, He was One with the Father. He was “in the Father” before creation and was the One through all creation came.

    Now the Thessalonians verse you used already happened in 70ad… Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple and it already happened. To use this verse as you are doing is taking it way out of historical context as well as making Jesus out to be a false prophet if you are saying it has not happened yet.

    I also have covered in another thread as to that a force cannot have emotions (Eph. 4:30), speak (Acts 13:2), or have a will (1 Cor. 12:11).

    Which has yet to be addressed I might add.

    Can you show me one force that has emotion, speaks and has a will?

    So it seems that you have a lesser Jesus than the one in the bible…

    iggy

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  22. itodyaso says:

    Namorous,

    I do not pretend to know your heart, I do know your heart from your own words as that is what the bible tells us we will be judged.

    You seem to not interact with the truth I tell you so I see you as blind… but not without hope. I see that your words contradict themselves and the bible teachings and you judge me for holding to the truths of the bible?

    That is so strange as the bible states the Holy Spirit will teach us… and yet, instead you depend on the WTS to teach you… an organization of fallen men…

    Again, my prayers are with you and I hope you take time to read the versus and things I have brought up prayerfully asking the Holy Spirit to teach you and show you the truth.

    I do not follow man’s teachings, I follow Jesus… and depend on Him alone for my salvation.

    The saddest thing is you judge my heart and yet the bible states to not do so… you disobey the very word of God as you judge my eternal salvation. I hold out hope for your and trust you to God… and in that I do not judge you. Again your very own words judge you.
    iggy

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  23. itodyaso says:

    I do not have much more to say to you Namorous… say whatever you want… as this has been at an impasse for some time and I see only prayer is left for you… my heart does go out to you and I pray you find the true peace in Christ and his glorious salvation. But, really as of now, this is a waste of my time if all you want to do is insult me and not take time to reason with me over what the bible states.

    iggy

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  24. Namorous says:

    Yes, I must be such a sad case am I? That all of you seek to correct me even though I have shown great insight into lesser known truths found in scripture. That is ok though because we are all just flawed men and the ones not having faith anything near what we have (you are men of faith) would actually pass by these words and laugh at us. Spiritual things inflame men in public debates, we all know this. Somehow the spiritual things when focused on for some time can even exhaust us more than physical labor!

    I know you’all relate to that. Anyway, I think you guys are taking things too terminal in my case as if you have reviewed my whole being through this discourse. You say I have judged your hearts when I have said nothing in regards to your individual feelings. I have only stated the great danger in denying that the father God, Jehovah is actually appart from the son and his name must be exhaulted above all others before the end comes, otherwise you will continue to wake up in a war torn world.

    This to is a sign of the truth that I express. I am sorry I could not adress all of you guys’s points on these subjects but I see the basic flaw from the beginning from which you work your way outward to form the basis of your beliefs. While this is opinion to you of course, it is a matter of truth to me and those of my faith in a supreme God who has a son older than us AND the angels.

    Judgement cant come from me anyway. I would actually have to punish you or reward you over what you are saying. I am simply using discernment, which the transgressor always feels attacked by; especially if it is by way of a zealous proclaimer of the truth. We are all men who admire Jesus and hope that he becomes ruler over the Earth for 1,ooo years aren’t we? Better than any fleshly dictator. That is why I prayed for all of you two times and yet again later tonight. Namorous is such a rotten thing isnt he? Maybe his prayer doesn’t ascend to the father smelling like Nog Champa but rotten eggs and unwashed man-butt. NEVER MAY THAT HAPPEN!

    AAH AAH

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  25. iggy says:

    Namorous,

    And your humility is overwhelming us all!
    iggy
    Peace!

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