The Truthslayer guarantee!

Dear readers,

I have a guarantee for you! Here is my pledge….

Preaching the WHOLE Truth

“Presenting the truth without compromise is not popular in many religious circles today. With a great volume of “feel good” and “happy” half-gospels being offered, those who buck the trend and offer messages laced with words such as “sin,” “judgment,” “holiness,” “Satan,” and “repentance” are commonly viewed as narrow, old-fashioned or even Neanderthal. Actually, the preaching of the whole, authentic Gospel, with all of its convicting themes, never has been “popular.” What is different now than in times past is that yesterday’s Evangelicals were primarily interested in winning and then building strong, righteous disciples. In our day, however, many have decided to market themselves in such a way as to engage in a sort of popularity contest. This is symptomatic of the last days. Doesn’t it make sense that, if one is attempting to use marketing techniques like we’re seeing now, sermons pertaining to righteousness and surrender – let alone sin and hell – wouldn’t be considered? These themes are relics from a bygone era and are considered counterproductive to the prevailing wisdom churned out by today’s gurus of church growth.”

Therefore to sum up….

1) I pledge to preach the WHOLE TRUTH…and nothing but the truth. I NEVER compromise, because that is how holy I am. HEre and only here will you get nothing but the truth (and when I saying “nothing but the truth” I mean it!) You will never find liberal-style Christianity here that stresses love, meekness or humility.

2) I will offer nothing that is “feel good” I will guarantee to make you feel bad. That is my pledge!

3) I will join no popularity contests….even though I am number one in my world…and yours too.

4) There will be no “Happy-Half-Gospels” see #2. I will offer only brooding angry FULL gospels. Happy are they who trust in the Lord.

5) We’ll never use mass marketing techniques, ie like mass email mail-outs like those consumeristic churches.

That is my pledge! “God, I thank you that I am not like other men”.

Affectionately yours,

Truthslayer.

PS Please sign up for our non-popularity-contest-non-consumeristic-mass-mailing for your weekly diet of absolute truth. Its my guarantee to you!

_____________________________________________________

** Serious note ** For a helpful account of what humility is about see  True Humility

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25 Responses to The Truthslayer guarantee!

  1. Arthur McJohn says:

    Great Mr Truthslayer, but it is not enough until you become members of Deformata: deforming (for) the truth.

    Arthur McJohn – Grass to you

    Like

  2. Eric Barger says:

    Carlos,

    You are so creative. I mean that. It’s just too bad that you and other postmoderns seem to think that truth is simply what you define it to be. The only “absolute” you seem to buy is that no one can every know something that is absolute. What half-wit professor taught you that?

    You may never admit it but the very reason you disdain me is that I still believe that the complete and absolute truth for man is found only in the Bible. I certainly do not understand everything in the Bible. But I do believe it all, because I have trusted God and the overwhelming evidence of fulfilled prophecy.

    It just bugs you that some of us have been called by God – and instructed by his absolute Word – to warn about error and false teachers that Jesus, Paul, Peter, Jude, etc warned would appear and multiply in the end of days. Mock me all you want, I simply can’t help but do as He has instructed.

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  3. Eric Barger says:

    By the way, according to copyright law if you are going to quote large portions of our website you need to give credit and references. (My next newsletter is a doozy and I’m sure you’ll want to hack on it.)

    Like

  4. itodyaso says:

    For what it’s worth I am did not post this or write it! LOL! And of course you know me so well as to spout off lies about me and what I believe even though you never have met me. I even through down a challenge you ignored… but then you hold the truth so tightly as to ignore it when it gets in the way of accurately quoting others yourself. LOL! So blame me for another person’s post. Oh and about the copy right issue, you are credited by the link which goes to the site and everyone can read the quote hear and there. It is accurately posted as opposed to some of the stuff I have looked at you have done. So truth matters unless it stands in the say of Eric Barger slandering someone else…

    Oh and good day sir, May Jesus reign in your heart and turn you from abstract truth of Plato to The Truth who is the Person of Jesus… BTW He is about as absolute as I can fathom… and believe in… so I have no idea what you are talking about as far as postmodernism other than another lie about what I believe and a very humorous revelation you have no idea again what you are talking about. = )

    Repent from your believism and return to Jesus!

    Carlos iggy Shelton

    Like

  5. itodyaso says:

    Oh and Eric, it does not bug me what you do, it is how you do it… and that is rather sloppy… There are some great sites like Bible Answer Man or CARM who actually do research and try to be accurate in their research without resorting to misquoting and twisting other people’s statements.

    FYI But I found most people like you seem to think you are above reproach and can revise Truth to fit your needs… does it help with sales of your tapes and CDs? Just wondering how many “weak minded” people believe you and are led astray.

    iggy (Carlos Shelton)

    Like

  6. Eric Barger says:

    Hmmm…an angry postmodern…imagine that.

    Like

    • itodyaso says:

      Yes I am angry at those who misuse Jesus and the bible to abuse others. I am angry at those who lie about others in the name of Truth. I am angry at those who disregard Truth as something for their own financial gain and while doing so harm others. I stand against those who disregard Jesus and the bible in such a manner as you do Eric… so I am angry as Jesus was when he overturned the tables in the temple as those there turned the sacrificial system into a means of gain when it was the means to remind the Jews of their sin… I stand against you misquoting people and then making money off of the misquotes… yes… you are the money changer who sells others souls as well as your own to gain financial advantage.

      Again, there are legit apologetics sites like Ravi Zacharias Let my people think…

      Now if you made a real effort to do real research instead of spreading gossip (which is a sin) then my tune will gratefully change about you. = )

      Like

      • Eric Barger says:

        You don’t know me Carlos. You need to back up your accusations. Where did I misuse the Bible? How have I disregarded the truth for financial gain? Back up your bluster.

        It seems to me like you are the one willing to say anything in slander of those shining the light of the Bible on Emergent leaders and their errors.

        Like

  7. itodyaso says:

    BTW, you keep using that word post-modern about me, yet you are also a post-modern as you also live in the postmodern age… again, your ignorance shows…

    = )

    Like

  8. Eric Barger says:

    Carlos,

    That’s pretty incredible…an Emergent accusing somebody of twisting the truth.

    Would you like to refresh me on where you say I have “lied”? Specifics would be good.

    You said, “I even through down a challenge you ignored.” Did you mean “threw” and what was that challenge anyway?

    By the way, when you lampoon me along side folks like Jan Markell, Brannon Howse and John MacArthur I know I’m in great company.

    Like

  9. Eric Barger says:

    RE: Your comments on Postmoderns…

    So Carlos, does that mean EVERYBODY living today is a “postmodern”? Ridiculous.

    Postmoderns by definition are those who have abandoned absolute truth. I know this is hard for the postmodern mindset to grasp but how does one redefine that which cannot be redefined – biblical truth – and then claim to be a bible-believer?

    In the discussions I’ve had with Emergents it seems that they want Jesus the person, but do not want His Word, the Bible, to remain intact. This thinking was reflected when I personally heard Brian McLaren tell a crowd that Jesus came to save the planet and not lost humanity. (“Everything Must Change” Tour, Feb. 9, 2008, Nampa, Idaho)

    Like

  10. itodyaso says:

    Eric, again keep talking and show us more of your ignorance.

    You live in the post modern age but that does not mean you think postmodern… or do I… you think modern… or are a modernist… which tends to depersonalize the Truth from being a Person (Jesus) to being an abstract construct reality. So you by using your modern methods reduce Jesus Who is Truth Absolute, to an abstract instead of the Reality He is.

    Now if you want to go deeper we can, but so far you do not seem to even grasp the small things that are being discussed without twisting them.

    I believe that Jesus is The Truth… He became a man and walked among us. He was then murdered on a cross, buried, and rose again physically on the third day. He walked on the earth another 40 days teaching and then ascended to the right hand of the Father. The Bible is inspired Truth from God concerning Jesus Christ as Jesus states it is in John 5: 39-40…

    So you come here to tell me I am a postmodern who does not believe in truth… which is a lie… I believe that biblical truth does not need a modernist qualifier to make it more truth. I believe Truth is truth… and to add to the word of God causes confusion… so by adding “absolute” which is a Platonist dualism that comes from Gnosticism (do some research on this and bone up on where “Absolute” truth came from… it is not the bible!

    By adding absolute you are asserting then that there are other types of truth. I do not assert that. There is The Truth, the Person of Jesus Christ, who teaches us His Truth by the Person of the Holy Spirit… as the bible so teaches.

    But then I am the postmodern that does not believe the bible as you state about me… so you lie about me and then mock me about being truthful! LOL!

    Again, return to Jesus who is Truth and receive His Truth in you so that you will not be deceived into the soft Gnosticism you now embrace.

    Now as far as saving the planet… I guess you deny the words of Paul about this one. You are taking one statement and building a straw man argument on what Brian McLaren teaches. To clarify, Brian does teach we must be saved through Jesus, and yet God is doing much more… again as Paul states in Romans 8: 19. The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21. that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22. We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.23. Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

    So according to you, God is not being “liberated” which is what Brian McLaren is stating. You might also read N.T. Wright on this as this is basically where Brian McLaren got his idea… You might note that you are arguing against many of the finest theologians who also taught this… many I hope you also respect.

    You seem to have created this alternate version of what is going on… you sound much like those chase the Illuminati and Rothschilds and believe aliens are running the planet. IOW’s you sound like a whacko conspiracy person who reads something and just believes it instead of doing REAL research on the topic to find what they are saying is True or not. LOL!

    So again, I made my point and backed them up… you meanwhile came here and called me names and never backed up one statement you stated about me… so you lie about me instead of getting to know me… as I stated already is true in what you do to others.

    Like

    • Eric Barger says:

      This Is My Last Post…

      I had forgotten until tonight how that in my past conversations with Emergents they constantly condescend…I had just not been called a liar this much in 27+ years of ministry. Do you feel empowered? Your elitism is as stunning as your bitterness and I am praying for you.

      Accusing me of Gnosticism is one of the most laughable things I’ve ever encountered, especially when claiming that I don’t understand the argument at hand because, you, the ever-wise and more enlightened Emergent, says so. Sounds like a one-man conspiracy theory…LOL

      This is the core of Emergent heresy really…that is that truth must be redefined. Some people such as Emergent Nazarenes openly tell you they do not believe the Bible is inspired even though John Wesley openly defended that it was without error.

      The problem is that truth has become a moving target. And if the Scriptures are not reliable – or people are brought to believe that the centuries-old exegesis of them has been lacking – then Christianity is up for grabs and eventually anything is acceptable. This perfectly fits a culture seething with an angry spirit of rebellion that says “don’t tell me what truth is! I’m doing my own thing.”

      In the Emergent paradigm the makeup of beliefs is not absolute any longer. Truth is in play. McLaren clearly taught that the terms the Bible has been framed with have never been understood. And now, after twenty centuries, the Emergents have come to the rescue. How convenient. Joseph Smith said the same kind of things. This is the stuff cults are built on. If the Bible doesn’t mean what orthodox Christianity has tenaciously held to and what the Apostles and Martyrs died for and instead is in flux, then how can we be certain of anything? This is why so many guys (and gals) are speaking up against the teachings of McLaren, Bell, Jones, etc. The very core of Christianity is at stake here. Instead of postmodern it ought to be called “post absolute truth.” Have you bothered to read “The Truth Wars” by John MacArthur? He does a great job of exposing and explaining this.

      Next, Jesus did NOT come to save the planet. He came to save the lost humans on the planet who were separated from God because of SIN. Romans 8 is clearly referring to the fact and future event that God is going to destroy Earth and bring a New Heaven and a New Earth and that the creation is then going to be redeemed and made whole. (Revelation 21:1-2) Of course you believe that don’t you…yes, unless you think that somehow we’re going to rescue the world and in doing so facilitate Christ’ return? (Kingdom Now theology) Man was NOT created for Earth. Earth was created for man. Here is what McLaren wrote on the topic.

      “For the first time, through the EASTERN JESUS, I began to have a glimpse of how Jesus could indeed be the Savior of not just a few individual humans but of the whole world.
      – Brian McLaren, A Generous Orthodoxy, p.65

      To clarify that he was not talking about some sort of Universalistic belief he footnoted his own material.

      In a footnote to this statement on page 65 McLaren states: “By the ‘whole world,’ I do not necessarily mean every individual in it, but rather, I mean the cosmos, creation, the earth in history…”
      – Brian McLaren, A Generous Orthodoxy, p.66

      This is the same stuff we heard at Nampa, February, 2008.

      Whatever else he may have stated, there can be little doubt that he believes Jesus came to save the planet – something Scripture emphatically denies.

      I have a dear and longtime friend who is a wise old apologist and author. He gave me some great advice concerning situations like this. He said, “don’t bother to throw stones at barking dogs.” I don’t know why I even bothered to write you tonight but I won’t make that mistake again. You don’t want to talk…you just want to mock what I do and act like you know so much better and are so much more intellectual. Have fun. I forgive you.

      Eric
      http://www.ericbarger.com

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      • itodyaso says:

        Wow… you call me names and then claim I am condescending for trying to correct your errors. I show you bible verses that back my point and you do not address them… and you do not answer my questions.

        To call me condescending is the biggest laugh I have had in a long time. BTW I already showed you that John Wesley agreed with Brian McLaren… can you interact with that a bit? Was Wesley now according to you an emerging heretic? I am pointing out the incredible deficit in your understanding of the conversation we are having let alone your understanding of emerging… or is it Emergent… you have yet to tell me the difference… again let’s start there… what is the difference between Emergent and emerging?

        LOL!

        BTW did you even read the quote you cited? Brian is not saying that God did not save humans, he is stating as Wesley and many other theologians before Brian have stated it is not necessarily just about humans. You sir are even misquoting and twisting Brian’s words right there. Again, this is what I am trying to point out to you. It is clear as a bell if you just read with comprehension instead of a critical spirit. Discernment means that you at least try to understand what the other person is saying… not quote them then make up your version of what they meant. It is clear you are either a poor reader or purposely misleading people… so which is it?

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  11. itodyaso says:

    BTW, other people who were also at the event you speak of stated you misquoted Brian McLaren. Do you have a transcript? How many other books by Brian McLaren have you read? He tends to build on things so I am positive you did not mean that “the world” did not include people but meant it as in redeeming all creation as the Bible teaches. Or do you deny that Jesus death on the Cross redeemed and is redeeming all creation? Just wondering… as it seems that is what you are saying.

    Again, back up your facts as so far you have yet to do it once in this discussion…

    For reference I give you Brian’s own words… and that he does in fact believe in a “personal salvation.”

    http://www.brianmclaren.net/archives/000440.html
    http://books.google.com/books?id=MUtyY3jweI0C&pg=PA99&dq=brian+mclaren+%22personal+salvation%22&ei=4l0fS5urFZiSlQSovvHHCQ&cd=2#v=onepage&q=&f=false

    http://books.google.com/books?id=AJ-hHKR82LkC&pg=PT237&dq=brian+mclaren+%22personal+salvation%22&ei=E14fS5i4NY7okwSN0ryaCQ&cd=4#v=onepage&q=&f=false

    These are just a few areas you can read for starters. The thing is you are saying Brian denies personal salvation, yet he does not. Brian denies a type of personal salvation that makes a person so self focused they do not rise against the injustice that John Wesley rose against such as when John Wesley spoke out against slavery. Also this PDF article might be of interest and educational as to what John Wesley did in fact teach and which you deny and are distorting. http://divinity.duke.edu/reconciliation/pdf/wesleyongodinchristreconciling.pdf

    I quote Wesley from

    “Only the power that makes a world can make a Christian. And when he is so created, the old has passed away—Of their own accord, even as snow in spring. Behold! the present, visible, undeniable change! All things are become new—he has new life, new senses, new faculties, new affections, new appetites, new ideas and conceptions. His whole tenor of action and conversation is new, and he lives, as it were, in a new world. God, men, the whole creation, heaven, earth, and all therein, appear in a new light, and stand related to him in a new manner, since he was created anew in Christ Jesus.10”

    10John Wesley, Explanatory Notes upon the New Testament, 2 vols. (London: Bowyer, 1755; reprint edn., Salem, OH: Schmul, 1975), 457-58.

    These are the facts of what John Wesley taught… and they sound much like what I have heard Brian McLaren speak of… so I see you a bit out in left field with our assertions without any foundation of facts….

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  12. truthslayer says:

    Eric,
    I am pleased that you come here to imbibe the absolute truth. If you would have read carefully you would have noted that I DID SITE you (see hyper-text-link PREACHING THE WHOLE TRUTH, above your quote). While we are a satire site, we do our best to ensure that what quote is from an actual source. In this case it is yours.

    We parody & satirize sites like yours because as you have demonstrated by presumption (both here and your ‘apologetic site’) that you are heavily dependent upon overgeneralizations (ie post modern = anti-truth etc), misconstruing quotes and strawman. We hope that our site is a corrective measure thru a bit of comedy to make people see thru some of the ODMs sometimes outrageous claims.

    1) You presume that Iggy wrote this missive. He did not. Isn’t that what a discernment ministry should discern?

    2) You presume that as an “emergent” Iggy is anti-truth, Iggy is far from anti-truth. He simply does not treat truth as some ‘abstract form’ rather truth is embodied in the PERSON of Jesus rather than an idea (ie greek phil.)

    3) You presume that emergent/emerging is somehow anti-bible, anti truth. This movement is not monolithic. In fact some facets of the EC movement is heavily influenced by NT Wright. Have you read anything by Dan Kimball, J. Burke, Scott McKnight?

    4) You presume a lot of surface ideas about post-modernism. It is suffice to say that you need to do some research…before misidentifying your ‘enemy’ and then striking out with misinformed work.

    5) We WELCOME discernment, warning etc. But it must be buttressed with humility, accuracy and understanding. You may do well to reexamine what you mean by ‘truth.’ We can CERTAINLY agree that truth is NOT relative (-;

    Finally, you OWE it to your readers to at least understand what it is you are dealing with before you trying to ‘inform’ the public.

    I’m sure Iggy would also welcome further discussion.

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  13. Arthur McJohn says:

    Accept it Berger: people is getting tired of right wing conservative-imperialists, and thanks God for that. You will never pull your angloconservative worldview into my latino brain. So Eric, weep, weep weep!!!!!

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  14. truthslayer says:

    eric

    first,

    I (Dr. Truthslayer) wrote the TRUTHSLAYER Guarantee. Reading until the end of my blog entry would help discern this. See my note above! You have been addressing the wrong person! (-;

    second

    keep in mind we leave our blog open for comments….so you are able to state your case in public where we cannot on your site.

    third,

    keep in mind that IF you assume the position of watchmen….we must ask “who is watching the watchman?’ Therefore you are not above criticism nor infallible (neither are we!)

    fourth,

    therefore, just as you think it is necessary to ‘discern’ we think it is necessary to keep discernment groups accountable thru the use of satire, parody, humour.

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  15. This has been quite the comment thread! I do have a few thoughts related to Truthslayer’s most recent reply. I should also note that I happen to be committed to truth and accuracy myself. I have no patience with anyone who “spins” truth for any personal gain or agenda. I will also note that I know nothing of Eric Barger, have never read his site, and do not intend to ever read his site after reading the comments on this thread. My comments therefore should be understood as general rather than specific to a particular individual.

    I do believe in accountability of those in leadership. Of course, I also believe that those in leadership and teaching roles will be judged by God for how they conduct themselves (cf James 3.1). However, I also find it ironic when Protestants (and I use that term loosely to include Christians not under the umbrella of RC or EO) set themselves up as lords over their fellow Christians, acting as thought and doctrine police, without any real form of accountability themselves.

    Inside the context of an organized church universal (RC or EO) one could understand leadership insisting that others adhere to their understanding of doctrinal truth. However, in the context of Protestantism and independent, non-denominational churches this all seems a little silly. I do think my own pastor would take me to task for spreading doctrinal heresy without the need for Eric Barger or any other ODM to assist. After all, and as any self-respecting Protestant or independent churchman ought to be quick to acknowledge, this movement defines itself in large part by autonomy and the freedom to worship God according to the dictates of one’s own conscience without others forcing them to conform to their doctrinal or ideological position. So, again, this whole ODM thing really seems rather silly and, to be frank, philosophically inconsistent with the stated values and doctrinal position of the evangelical/conservative movement. Just a little ironic…

    Beyond the illogic of the movement in general, I think the obvious question does beg to be answered, “Who watches the watchmen?” This question becomes particularly acute in an environment where literally anyone can set up a website and call themselves an expert. But why should that person, who has no relation or connection to me, be allowed to sit in judgment over me? They do not know me, do not understand me, and more than likely will be basing their judgment on a very small subset of my published or publicly communicated work. I have seen far too many occasions where “Christians” publish material (website, book, audio, etc.) that slanders others without any evidence or proof to support their claims. I have also seen far too many cases of blatant misrepresentation being carried out in the name of an agenda or cause.

    Anyone who sets themselves up as a “watchdog” should well expect that, in this day and age in particular, others will be watching their words and actions as well. Presidents, governors, and major denominational leaders are not immune from citizen scrutiny in and information age and neither should ODM and watchdog groups be left unaccountable.

    As a former newspaper reporter I recognize the value and importance of holding leaders accountable through truthful and factual reporting. Our nation was even founded on this idea since the founders had themselves witnessed far too much abuse from unaccountable leadership. (No, I do not derive my theology from national politics either…)

    Satire also has a long history and has been used to highlight foolishness and inconsistency for centuries – often with good effect. I would suspect that the heated responses you receive from some of your “targets” would rather prove that you have, on occasion, hit a sore spot.

    Self-appointed, pharasaical, and unaccountable watchdogs concern me. Worse yet, they scare me! None of us should dare set ourselves up as being better or smarter than those around us. This is exactly the stuff that makes for persecutions, Crusades, witch trials, and genocide.

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  16. […] discernmentalists, we have come under attack by one of our own! Eric Barger’s Take A Stand Ministries cited iTodyaso as the culprit when […]

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  17. […] with Absolute Certainty these Absolute Truths! Todd Friel using Eric Barger’s Bible Based Selective Uncomprohensive Cherry-Picking Reading Machine has said of the newest installment in the Emergent Twilight series that it in fact promotes the […]

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  18. […] a) Accused the wrong person of writing the “Truthslayer Guarantee“ […]

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  19. […] who come to our site to imbibe the absolute truth have realized by now that we have been attacked by one of our own (ie Eric Barger’s Take A Stand Ministries – […]

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